Unfortunately and much to my chagrin, I can't find you any video, but here are some quotes from last night's clusterfuck of an interview courtesy of a transcript of provided by MSNBC.
Count the number of distortions and bashings of hte late-great Jackson as possibe in Orth's answer.
OLBERMANN: Did he? Did he ever find the life he wanted?No objection ever came from Keith. And even if there was some veracity to those distortions, this is not the kind of things you say about a man 3 HOURS AFTER HE WAS PRONOUNCED DEAD!
ORTH: I don‘t think so. Michael Jackson gave a lecture at Oxford in 2001, in which he said childhood was supposed to be the wondrous time in your life. I never had that childhood. He grew up on the stage. He was a superstar at a very young age. His family whipped him into being the money-maker for them. He resented it terribly.
He really did become very much addicted to fame. It became grotesque at a certain point. He was so extremely talented that nobody ever told him no. And he was surrounded by enablers. And the charges that I followed from 1994 until 2005, the allegations of pedophilia against him, I believe were very much probably more true than not.
And he had—he battled drugs. He had alcohol problems. He gave—it came out in the trial testimony that he called white wine Jesus Juice and red wine Jesus blood, and he gave it to teenagers. He really was a very, very sad person, who had been given great, great, extreme talent.
But in the end, the life he led was grotesque.
We continue on and while I ended the blockquote with some commentary, we are resuming the interview right where I left off.
OLBERMANN: I‘ve often heard this used about athletes, about politicians, about anyone who has excelled in any field that requires a part of you to become permanently public. People say, if only they could have somehow separated out these bad parts of the personality, these compulsive or addictive or abusive parts of the personality that has eventually come up to end or dismantle part of the public career; is that possible? With your experience of people like Michael Jackson, not that there was crowds and crowds of them—but there are many people that who fall under this broad category of enormous talent and enormous mistakes, and enormous controversy, everything writ large. Is there any separating or are all these things so interweaved that you might not be able to say which is cause and which is affect, but it‘s all part of one bundle?She called the man a narcissist. 3 hours after he died she calls him a narcissist. And once again, no objection from Keith Olbermann. He is perfectly fine with everything Maureen has said. And just as an aside, Maureen is a known critic and basher of Jackson. Why is she even on this show anyway? Shouldn't this discussion be saved for later?
ORTH: What happens, I think, is at a certain point, you‘ve been told you‘re a genius so many time, and you are a genius musically, and you are not really allowed to grow up and mature in a normal way. Narcissism takes over. I remember one time in Neverland, there was a black velvet painting and Michael Jackson, I think he had commissioned it. And it was Michael Jackson, Mohamed Ali, Martin Luther King, and Jesus Christ. That‘s kind of how he viewed himself, in that pantheon.
So he was always surrounded by enablers, people who wanted to get close to him, close to his talent, close to his money. I don‘t think it is at all surprising that we‘re not hearing this statement come out. I‘m sure there is amazing behind the scenes craziness going on right now, because I think chaos followed Michael wherever he went. And I‘m sure that this is one of those chaotic moments.
What is going to happen to the children? Everybody, all the creditors are going to be in line for the money. I‘m sure this story is going to go on with a lot of craziness.
OLBERMANN: Yes, if there is money, or if it hasn‘t already disappeared—
ORTH: There is still—I think he still owned about 25 percent of his catalog. Sony was taking it little by little, piece by piece. But there is potential problems in the future because of his extraordinary music for many years to come. There‘s plenty to fight over.
And the only thing I can say about this next question is tell me this did nut just happen.....
OLBERMANN: [...] What was this comeback tour all about? What do you think it meant to him?Unbelieveable.
ORTH: Well, the comeback tour first has to be about money, because he was always having terrible, terrible problems with money and debt. And he would attach himself to various sheikhs and billionaires in different parts of the world, where he still had a measure of a claim. He was very big in Poland, for example, or in parts of the Middle East. So he would find very rich people in these more out of the way places, and sort of live off of them for a while, until they got tired of it, or until the concerts didn‘t materialize or whatever. And then he would be thrown out and they would go on and there would be more lawsuits.
This is a person who lived in constant chaos, and probably kept a whole retinue of lawyers all the time working. So the amount of money that came in, the amount of money that came out was extraordinary.
Having said that, of course Michael wanted to be revered. He wanted to be considered a god. At one point, he had some man going around the world trying to find places where he could get lifetime achievement awards. That was one of his favorite things, was to appear in different parts of the world with a lifetime achievement award.
So he needed—he had an ego that need to be fed. But he really didn‘t like entertaining anymore. And, of course, his family for years—his brothers begged him, please, please come out with us. Do another concert tour with us. And they would constantly announce that this was about to happen, which, of course, it never happened. He didn‘t really want anything to do with his family.
I remember that his parents were very loyally sitting in the front row of the trial in 2005 most days. And different various relatives would come in and come out. As soon as that not guilty verdict came down, boy, he disappeared. He went in one direction. They went in another. And I don‘t think they could get him on the phone.
I think that occult777 summed this whole thing up best in a Daily Kos entry:
On the day the world mourns the shocking, sudden death of Michael Jackson, Keith Olbermann decided to reflect on his memory by bringing Vanity Fair's Maureen Orth into the studio to trash Michael's image with lies and innuendos most of which were without merit.Suffice to say, Keith Olbermann has disappointed me greatly. There is only one fallacy in that quote and I'll get to that later. There is one thing that Keith Olbermann cannot and will never be able to overcome: The man is a coward!!!!! He is utterly afraid to disagree with any guest he ever has and I think I can count on one finger the number of times he has had more than one guest on his program. There is no debate, no interesting discussions. The studio is and always has been an echo-chamber. And Keith makes it that way. For he never, NEVER disagrees with anything his guests say. Case and point, take the Jeanine Garofalo incident from a couple months ago. Listen as she calls EVERY PERSON who joined in in the tea party protests (or as Keith Olbermann and others called them, "teabaggers") a racist and listen closer as KEITH ACTUALLY EXPRESSES AGREEMENT WITH THAT RIDICULOUS, ABSURD, OFFENSIVE, AND DOWNRIGHT FALSE STATEMENT!!!!!!!!
I have always held Mr. Olbermann in high regard as a journalist. Common decency dictates that on the day a person dies, we all owe the deceased and their family a certain amount of respect. As the saying goes, if you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all. For crying out loud, Keith! You had Maureen Orth sit there and spew hateful rhetoric and unsubstantiated stories as facts, while you sat there and egged her on to give you more dirt. How dare you?
This is a shocking occurrence and most of us are saddened by the tragic nature of such an untimely passing. The man may not have been an angel but give us all a break and allow us to mourn in peace. I would stand up for you in your memory if on the day of your passing, some hater and twisted buffoon made statements, however controversial about the life you lived. I hope when you get the opportunity to review tonight's segment with Maureen Orth, who by the way, has and always will be a hater and an innuendo pedlar, that sensationalizes for the sake of magazine sales, you will make a decent commentary and address the inappropriate nature of what transpired on your show tonight.
You heard it in Mr. Oxman's voice as he spoke between tears of losing a friend. Today, a fellow human being died. He was a brother, a son, a cousin and an uncle. More than just a pop icon who's dirty laundry was aired in public for all to see. You Keith, ought to be above the fray.
You have really disappointed a whole lot of your fans tonight.
Update!! - This is NOT about Keith bashing. I am a true fan of Olbermann's. I Have been since his sportscaster days. The man isn't perfect all the time, but most of the time. He should be called out, when he makes a mistake.
I'll admit that when I first started watching Countdown, I was blind as a bat. I had never seen O'Reilly before and I thought Olbermann was the greatest thing ever. But I can see now. My only disagreement with the aforementioned is that the poster called Keith Olbermann a journalist. That, he is not. He is a liberal commentator. And whether he'll ever admit it or not, that's exactly what he is. Just like Sean Hannity is a neo-conservative commentator, just like Glenn Beck is a liberterian commentator, and just like Bill O'Reilly is an independent commentator. I've been watching The O'Reilly Factor and he is not a far-right Republican has Keith Olbermann portrays him as. He just does not have a hard-on for Obama as Keith Olbermann frequently seems to do, especially on domestic issues (Olbermann's a little better at criticizing him on foreign policy). For those that believe Olbermann and consider O'Reilly right-wing, I challenge you to watch him for a week, whether it be live at 8 PM ET or the replay at 11 PM ET. And for those into ratings, not only is O'Reilly's overall numbers tripled that of Keith's, but more often than not, the Factor re-air has more viewers than the live 8 PM edition of Countdown!
This is not a far-right opinion that I am presenting here. It is the facts of the situation. For those that don't know and/or forget, I am a liberal democrat (especially on social issues) and I campaigned hard and voted for Obama. But you have to be able to criticize even those that you agree with it and even if their opinions are the same as yours, that does not make them perfect angel who do no harm.
Let's go back to O'Reilly for a second here and Keith's cowardice. I've been watching the O'Reilly Factor more and more as I have stated and I don't always agree with him, but there is always one common denominator, and that is that O'Reilly always has guests who disagree with him on his show and there is always a lively, fun to listen to discussion, whereas Keith NEVER challenges his guests to an argument, and most of the time they just agree with each other. And while Hannity can be a bit too much on the right for me to tolerate on a daily basis, he too has guests who disagree with him and a lively discussion. Again, everything in that paragraph is a fact. Tell me a time when Keith had a verbal disagreement with a guest. Go ahead.....find one. I dare you. You can't do it, now can you?
Now let's go back to what I started this post with: the Maureen Orth interview. All this was not a rant about Olbermann for nothing. The point of this whole post is to demonstrate to you that Keith Olbermann is too much of a high-horse riding coward to have anyone disagree with him. We can't let a verbal squabble bruise the ol' ego, now can we? The more I watch, the more I become disgusted with it. And forget the fact that Olbermann mocked Michael Jackson beyond belief during Jackson's 2005 trial, I think everyone at somepoint or another took their shots at Jackson for that whole saga, but when you are anchoring coverage that is more or less supposed to be a tribute and you are either sincere or just portraying someone sympathetic, and someone completely trashes and skewers him like Orth did, SAY SOMETHING, YOU GUTLESS COWARD!!!!!!!! STAND UP FOR YOURSELF!!!!! STAND UP FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN!!!!! GROW A SACK AND DEFEND YOURSELF AND THE LEGACY OF MICHAEL JACKSON!!!! DEFEND YOURSELF AND YOUR SHOW WHEN SOMEONE CALLS TENS-OF-THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS RACISTS JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T AGREE WITH OBAMA'S TAX PLANS!!!!!!!!!
It's people who are too scared to stand up for themselves and have a disagreement that are the worst persons in the world. And Keith Olbermann falls into that category. It's easy to criticize others who say something stupid in the heat of a moment, when all you do is read from a teleprompter and have guests who agree with you. It's easy to just agree with everything your guests say and go about life and make an undeserving $8 million per year for it. This way, Keith's ego is perfectly intact and he does not have to worry about taking a few shots on the air. People like Keith don't deserve that kind of money. Say what you will about O'Reilly, but at least he is man enough to get in disagreements and arguments. He'll take his shots and move on, unlike Keith "I Avoid Arguments AT All Costs Because My Ego Can't Take Such A Low Blow" Olbermann.
I end with a statement that until I can get over this, I'm pretty much done with Countdown. Keith has crossed the line too many times for my liking. I just hope that one day Keith Olbermann will leave the political news business for good and stick to becoming a sportscaster full-time. At least there is something he is good at.
Just a guess, but I don't think you will be guest hosting the O Files in a while?
ReplyDeleteIf he wants me to do it, I will still do it and I'll do it with a smile. I express my anger by writing and he's pissed me off quite a bit over the last few months that it needed to be said.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, a month of not watching Countdown would not be the worst thing in the world for me. I might reassess him after my vacation.
O'Reilly gets better ratings than Katie Couric and the CBS News.
ReplyDeleteAnd she is on broadcast tv and O'Reilly is on cable. So right there tells the type of pull O'Reilly gets.
What really bothers me about Olberman is all the nicknames he gives people.
I'm policitical independent and did not vot for Bush or liked any off his policies. But to call the man Adolph really shows you what type of man Olberman is. I don't care if you hated Bush, you shouldn't campare him to a person that had millions of Jews slaughtered.
For a cable news show, his ratings are unbelieveably phenomenal. And he's kept it up for so long as well.
ReplyDeleteThe nicknames don't necessarily bother me that much when they're funny. I sometimes give sports figures nicknames if I believe they are funny enough (i.e. Dr. Kornheiser for Tony Kornheiser after he said one MNF broadcast that he likes playing doctor in the booth when players get injured), but nicknames just for the sake of nicknames as Olbermann occasionally does gets old real fast and comparing Bush (or anyone else for that matter) Hitler is not funny and the comparison just is not warranted. I'm not a Bush fan, but Adolf Hitler he is not.
ok, i'm a little drunk(a good night of Orioles baseball and sticking it to friends who root for the Gnats will do that to you)but i'm going to try to respond to some of the comments made here.
ReplyDelete1.) it has to be said that Maureen Orth is Tim Russert's widow, so i imagine it would have been more than a little uncomfortable for KO or anyone at NBC to challenge any of the assertions she makes. also she may have some sort of consulting deal where she comments anytime a celebrity she's profiled is involved in the news. with that said,
2) i think her comments are necessary when compared to those some others, like Michael Eric Dyson, who just commented on the man's musical abilites and his impact on that industry. there was also someone named Flo ( i couldn;t find a transcript for)who commented during the 7:00 hour, who was ready to start carving MJ onto Mt. Rushmore. so are you saying we should stick to hagiography when someone famous dies? its clear that MJ was an incredibly complicated person, and I, for one, want to examine all sides of a personality rather sticking to "safe" subjects, like his music.
3.)to say O'Reilly "doesn't have a hard-on for Obama like Olbermann" is a bit of an understatement, don't you think? every day he and the others at Faux go out of their way to distort and misrepresent President Obama, in order to paint and reinforce the picture that he's weak and destroying America. does this sound like a "fun to listen to conversation?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDV1jsPlKD8.
read what Joan Walsh had to say about this here: http://www.salon.com/opinion/walsh/politics/2009/06/12/oreilly_walsh/?source=newsletter. i'm also sure O'Reilly will be consistent and demand Mark Sanford and John Ensign resign the way he demanded President Clinton to resign, right? or he is just another right-wing hypocrite who has one set of standards for those he hates and another for those he supports.
and you'll also note that Garofalo has not appeared on Countdown since the "Teabagger" incident. and KO has been much harder on President Obama than O'Reilly or Hannity ever were with Bush. are you going to call them out for that, or just dismiss it as an act? and read Beck's 9/12 principles for a laugh. he's not a libertarian. and if KO could find an honest(one who doesn't stick and repeat the talking points no matter the question) conservative to debate the issues, i'm sure he would have them on, but he's not going to do "Crossfire" just to entertain the masses. and there's plenty of criticism of the cable ratings to be found on the web, so i'm not going to repeat it here.
@Jay 7:48: i'm sure you go out of your way to call out those on the right that compare President Obama and the Democrats to Hitler and the Nazis, right?
i apologize for the length of this post.
2 points i forgot:
ReplyDelete1) Deepak Chopra on Countdown 6/26 made many of the same points Orth made, but in a very moving way.
2) i can't believe KO used a freaking newspaper blog response to try and discredit that MO state senator. i really hope someone at NBC makes him apologize for doing that.
I did not know that about Orth but there is still no excuse for that interview. If they needed her on for some contractual reason, an interview like that would be better off for the future days. She's profiled him throughout her career so her viewpoints should not come as a surprise to anyone (I do have to give her props for consistency in her beliefs about Jackson, though). For me, though, those are not things you talk about not 3 hours after he has been pronounced dead on national TV.
ReplyDeleteThere are ways to talk about him other than bashing him. There was no sympathy in her voice during that interview. Watching and listening to that whole interview just rubbed me the wrong way. She was not sympathetic for Michael. Her agenda was to bash him and make him look bad and that she did. There are ways to talk about his controversies without coming across as mean or ill-willed. The fact that she is Russert's widow does not mean that Keith can't challenge her (even if it's politely). He failed miserably.
While I don't believe that Garofalo has been on since, Michael "Thank God There Is A Hurricane Making Landfall In The U.S. On The Same Day Has The RNC" Moore has been back on since his idiotic remarks on Countdown which were sumarized and paraphrased above in quotes. And once again, no disagreement or denounciation from Keith.
I don't always agree with Bill O'Reilly but he has been fair of his coverage of Obama. Compare Olbermann's disagreements with Obama to his disagreements with Bush. Olbermann is much more vociferous on Bush (remember he called him a fascist, of which even though I can't stand Bush, he is not). His disagreements with Obama have been no where near as harsh.
The problem with your argument that O'Reilly will go easy on Sanford and Ensign is that that argument can get turned around right on it's head so fast that it is not even funny. I have not seen an O'Reilly episode where he talked about Ensign or Sanford, but let me ask you these questions. Where was Keith Olbermann during the Clinton scandal? He was at MSNBC then. If you've ever wondered where the popular nickname of Bathtub Boy for Keith Olbermann came from, well, here is your answer. It's because he refused altogether to cover the story!!!! Instead as John Gibson pointed out, he stayed at home in the bathtub. And while the bathtub part may or may not be true, Olbermann refused to cover that story and that's a fact. Once again, further driving home the point that he is a coward.
And where was Keith Olbermann and all of his mockery for the John Edwards' scandal? Political scandals are funny, but while you claim that O'Reilly is not consistent (I can't vouch or deny that statement, like I said), Keith Olbermann's hypocrisy here is so much more outstanding than anyone else in cable news that it's not even funny. I don't mind the mockery of the scandals, but let's see some consistency here.
Take my O'Reilly challenge that I layed out in my post. Watch him live at 8 or the re-airs at 11 and do so with an open mind, and not how Keith portrays him. I said this a million times and I'll say it again. I am a liberal democrat and an Obama supporter. Bill O'Reilly's coverage of President Obama is fair coverage. You believe otherwise because Keith distorts him so much it's not even funny. Take for example the incident where Bill O'Reilly, according to Keith, was blaming the rape victims for what happened to them and the controversy ensuing with the It Happened To Alexa Founation speech that O'Reilly gave earlier in the year. Here's a link to that whole thing with all of the context (and despite what he said, Olbermann did not give the whole context). Listen to this and still try to tell me that O'Reilly is blatantly blaming the rape victims (the link leads you to a download of that segment of the Radio Factor episode, don't worry, it is safe).
http://www.mediafire.com/?ouzzyymoz2j
And kt, as far as using the blogs go, that is Olbermann's M.O. Media Matters, Newshounds, among many others are his sources for WPitW. That's why the folks at OlbermannWatch.com call him Rip n' Read. He takes right from blogs. This is not anything new for him.
ReplyDeleteI frequently agree with Olbermann in political opinion, but sometimes bad ethics for an 8 PM cable news host who claims to be all all about "right and wrong" and not "left and right" to have so many irregularities and such cowardness like Olbermann does and has drives me crazy at times. Maybe I ought to start watching Maddow more. She's a liberal, she does not take from blogs (or at least I don't believe she does), she's funny, and she occasionally has guests who disagree with her.
And sorry for that even longer reply (I can be pretty wordy sometimes). ;-) This was all supposed to be one reply but it was too long for Blogger. I did not know Blogger had a maximum length for comments....
it's late and i'll have more on this tomorrow,but its funny that we're having this drawn out discussion over something that no more than 1% of the country watches on most nights.
ReplyDeletei think we'll have to agree to disagree about having Orth on. i for one don't believe in ignoring MJ's incredibly complicated life, and only focusing on him as a pop icon. i do think a personal relationship like Orth and anyone at NBC should be a disqualifying factor from having her appear, but wqe all know there is no standards on cable news.i am a former viewer of the Factor, so i have a general idea of O'Reilly's game. and, i am confident that KO would never stoop to sending a producer to ambush you for writing something that he didn't like(unlike a certain someone...)maybe it comes down to i don't like being called names(like moron and pinhead) for believing and fighting for the opposite of what BOR does. and John Gibson and OlbermannWatch, JFein? seriously? ok..more on this(if i'm still welcome)later
before i go: remember the Teabaggers' were aided and got extensive promotion by Faux News. which then leads to fun moments like this:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dailykostv.com/w/001168/
then imagine if NBC had extensively promoted an Iraq war protest and then BOR's and the right's response.
and remember there were people in those crowds questioning everything about Obama short of if he was an ET, so it went beyond a "tax" protest.
True.
ReplyDeleteAnd ambush journalism, as it is called, is a very controversial tactic. However, O'Reilly has used it for reasons other than to stalk Terkel and left-wingers. He got Garofalo a few weeks after she called tens of thousands of Americans racist on Countdown. The way that FNC and O'Reilly go about the ambushes and what they tell and reveal about themselves is not always the way to go about it (young Jesse has a lot to learn), but it's a tactic that's been around for awhile. Some use it and others don't.
OlbermannWatch is a great site. I'm not a fan of Gibson and I think he's full of jealousy, but that is where Bathtub Boy comes from.
And I am speaking merely for O'Reilly and not the rest of Fox News, of which I do not watch and do not like. The montage Keith ran of the promoting of the protests was hilarious. And I think Bill O'Reilly slams NBC News and MSNBC enough as it is.
Some of those protesters may have been racist, but to come out and say that ALL of them are and then to have Keith agree with her is just downright stupid and indefensible.
i agree with your last point. that's why Garofalo hasn't been back since that show.
ReplyDeletei guess it maybe depends on one's point of view, but it seems that BOR uses the ambush technique to go after those that write something about him or Fox that he doesn't like. if he used it to challenge some of the serious problems the country has, maybe i'd be a little more accepting. instead, he uses it to do what you allege KO to do, which is massage a brusied ego. and everything he alleges about Immelt and Iran, I can say about Murdoch and China. and i doubt that if McCain or Steele or any R running for President wanted to go on Countdown that KO would say no. they would just get grilled.
we'll have to agree to disagree again about BOR and Alexa.
my problem w/ OlbermannWatch is that its run by a guy who's made his life mission to get KO off the air. how would you like it if I went to the person who hated you the most in high school, and used their information in order to discredit and silence you(which i should probably do because you like the Flyers,but thats another story).
i don't understand your problem with KO and using Newshounds,MM,etc. i mean, they often post WPitW themselves, which leads to me guessing that they have some sort of understanding between themselves regarding content. unless you expect KO to watch or listen to all of those shows and do "original" reporting himself? and i highly doubt that BOR and the others aren't using right-wing blogs in order to generate story ideas. i mean, their staffs and resources are limited. which is why cable "news" is such dreck.
and i wish KO would quit and go write books on baseball. ;-)
O'Reilly does occasionally use the ambush technique to challenge problems. I can't name any exact times off the top of my head and it only really gets written about when he attacks someone from the left.
ReplyDeleteAside from the majority of political viewpoints at OlbermannWatch and the man who runs the site who I'll admit is a bit of an obsessive, the stuff posted in the comments section about him is pretty acccurate. And their analysis of Olbermann proves more often than not to be right on.
The problem there is is that he does not always verify their accuracy, so occasionally he gets caught in flat out lies (which are pointed out all the time by OlbermannWatch) about the people named WPitW. The blogs are right most of the time, but not always.
If Olbermann spent all day talking about baseball and sports, I would be extremely happy. That he is really good at. His MLBlog is phenomenal.
And you must really love the Flyers now that we've got Chris Pronger as well. ;-)
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, kt, you'll always be welcome back here. ;-)
well, like i'l keep repeating, until there is some kind of oversight of cable "news" its always going to be 99% garbage. i just prefer KO's writing. and i'm going to reserve judgment on the NHL until i see what moves the Caps make in free agency. its clear that not trading for a defense-first defenseman cost them the Stanley Cup. and the Flyers still aren't the Pens :)
ReplyDeleteoh,one other thing...the stuff posted in the comments section at OW is generally accurate? do they still make fun of KO's weight,girlfriend, or anything or anybody that remotely disagrees with their point-of-view?
ReplyDeleteWhen they're making legitimate points and not using the annoying nicknames, then yes, their analysis is pretty spot on.
ReplyDeleteLook at it this way with the Caps, they gave Pittsburgh their toughest series in the playoffs (yes, I think the Caps played the Pens tougher than the Wings did).